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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selurong View Post
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    Yes. Nanyue's first Emperor was Chinese but it's people were Vietnamese. The people are the identity of a nation, not the monarch. The Cebu Rajahnate had a Tamil King but it's people were Malays. Likewise Britain has a Queen from a Germanic house but the people are still British. Just because Vietname's first Emperor was Chinese it doesn't mean that Vietnam was Chinese.

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    No I think they were either Daic or Hmong. Or whoever they were they were amongst the "nation" of tribes called the Yue. But it didn't have to mean they were just Vietnamese. If I remember correctly there was a famous Yue boatman song which was recorded in the annals of Chinese history and the prince who rode upon the boat when he had understood the song gave the boatman a homosexual hug.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_of_the_Yue_Boatman
    Last edited by RiseOfKoba; 09-16-2018 at 10:11 AM.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiseOfKoba View Post
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    No I think they were either Daic or Hmong. Or whoever they were they were amongst the "nation" of tribes called the Yue. But it didn't have to mean they were just Vietnamese. If I remember correctly there was a famous Yue boatman song which was recorded in the annals of Chinese history and the prince who rode upon the boat when he had understood the song gave the boatman a homosexual hug.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_of_the_Yue_Boatman
    Lol. Great excerpt. Anyway, the problem with the term Yue and Baiyue is that it encompasses so many peoples, language families and cultures.

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  3. #23
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              Ethnicity:   Horsecore and bunnycore

    Quote Originally Posted by Selurong View Post
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    Yes. Nanyue's first Emperor was Chinese but it's people were Vietnamese. The people are the identity of a nation, not the monarch. The Cebu Rajahnate had a Tamil King but it's people were Malays. Likewise Britain has a Queen from a Germanic house but the people are still British. Just because Vietnam's first Emperor was Chinese it doesn't mean that Vietnam was Chinese.

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    Right and just because there were a few R types in Egypt doesn't mean the people were not just African, because they were. Nefertiti looks African.

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  4. #24
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    Mind you we are talking about northern Africans not Subsaharan Africans but even with this differentiation in mind it's still not as though someone from Great Britain came to Egypt with ambition to rule and made half the population white or Caucasoid.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiseOfKoba View Post
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    Right and just because there were a few R types in Egypt doesn't mean the people were not just African, because they were. Nefertiti looks African.

    Quote Originally Posted by RiseOfKoba View Post
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    Mind you we are talking about northern Africans not Subsaharan Africans but even with this differentiation in mind it's still not as though someone from Great Britain came to Egypt with ambition to rule and made half the population white or Caucasoid.
    The modern Egyptians have Caucasian admixture though. They were invaded by Greeks, Romans and British. So they would have European admixture too.

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    Last edited by Selurong; 09-16-2018 at 10:49 AM.
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  6. #26
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              Ethnicity:   Horsecore and bunnycore

    No, they would have Middle Eastern admixture more than anything else. The narrow strip that divides Africa from Middle east could have easily been traversed. Admixitures could be why North Africans are mistook for Caucasoid at times.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiseOfKoba View Post
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    No, they would have Middle Eastern admixture more than anything else. The narrow strip that divides Africa from Middle east could have easily been traversed. Admixitures could be why North Africans are mistook for Caucasoid at times.
    Yes they have Middle Eastern ancestry too.

    Their aristocracy was Greek though. That's why Cleopatra was a part Greek too.

    Afterwards, Julius Ceasar of Rome invaded Egypt and she became the foodbasket of the Roman Empire.

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    Last edited by Selurong; 09-16-2018 at 10:57 AM.
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  8. #28
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              Ethnicity:   Horsecore and bunnycore

    No that's the later period after the conquest by Alexander. I'm talking about the original culture bearers of Egypt. They were from none of the places you spoke of because if they were then the Europeans would have been far advanced than they were and build pyramids among other things after they learned of it. Since they didn't understand Afroasiatic Egypt was always off limits until it was captured by Alexander of Macedonia.

    Originally they were only from Africa. The upper and lower parts of Egypt along the Nile was united at around 3000 BC nowhere near the time of Alexander's 600 BC.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selurong View Post
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    Yeah. I agree. I think the designation of whether a nation is maritime oriented or not is whether or not most of it's people are either sea traders or land horticulturalists. In which case, Chams were clearly maritime driven. This, compared to the Mongols who had a standing navy but most of their people weren't really maritime traders, just their soldiers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RiseOfKoba View Post
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    I have not heard of the Austronesian substrate theory either. Would need some proof.
    Japanese Islands were indeed the "meeting point" of the Oceanic / Pacific Islander civilization from the south and Okhost Ainu-Nivkh hunterer-gatherer civilization from the north (Sakhalin).

    But that were time before Tang Buddhism civilization came from East Asia mainlander.



    Quote Originally Posted by RiseOfKoba View Post
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    No I think they were either Daic or Hmong. Or whoever they were they were amongst the "nation" of tribes called the Yue. But it didn't have to mean they were just Vietnamese. If I remember correctly there was a famous Yue boatman song which was recorded in the annals of Chinese history and the prince who rode upon the boat when he had understood the song gave the boatman a homosexual hug.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_of_the_Yue_Boatman
    Quote Originally Posted by Selurong View Post
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    Lol. Great excerpt. Anyway, the problem with the term Yue and Baiyue is that it encompasses so many peoples, language families and cultures.

    Sent from my CHM-U01 using Tapatalk



    Zhao Tuo has been established Pan Yu as his capital when he ruled up Ling Nam area 200 BCE, brought his families and soldiers.

    The rest of Ling Nam area were less affected by Qin soldiers and rulers.

    Now you see that Cantonese WAS native Nan Yue language with heavy Qin language from Zhong Yuan area.

    The Vietnamese, Zhuang and She-Hmong are not so really influenced by the Qin, as you can see they belong to different branch of "Sino" languages, but still share "Yue" indigenous characteristics.

    ~ Zhuang-Bouyei language belongs to the Daic or Tai-Kadai groups.

    ~ Viet-Muong language belongs to Mon-Khmer / Austro-Asiatic groups.

    But overall, the Cantonese-Zhuang-Vietnam speeches, if you listen them carefully, they still retain basic common features indicating that they once belong to a common indigenous groups,

    But sadly, it is believed that many of native woman were raped by Qin soldiers.



    Quote Originally Posted by RiseOfKoba View Post
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    No, they would have Middle Eastern admixture more than anything else. The narrow strip that divides Africa from Middle east could have easily been traversed. Admixitures could be why North Africans are mistook for Caucasoid at times.
    Yeah, the tomb mural walls of ancient Egypt doesn't tell us much, but modern Egypt is largely Afro-Asiatic in the Arabic / Middle Eastern world.

    But, the Kazakh, Urdus (Pakistanis), and Malays use Arabic writing and languages as their national writing, but they are not necessarily Arabs, right?

    The Kazakh and Malays don't use Arabic officially now, only Urdus and maybe Uyghurs do.

    Kazakh use Russian and Latin officially.

    Malays use Latin officially like Philippines and Vietnam do, from their former British, Dutch, Spanish, and French rulers respectively.

    But it is highly respectful when Malays can write and speak Arabic in the local Islamic politics and educations.

    The Kazakhs, Uyghurs, Pakistanis/Urdus, Bangalis and Malays surely can't give up and surrender their Arabic names and culture,

    Arabic which has been become their essence of life and blood-giving nature.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiseOfKoba View Post
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    No that's the later period after the conquest by Alexander. I'm talking about the original culture bearers of Egypt. They were from none of the places you spoke of because if they were then the Europeans would have been far advanced than they were and build pyramids among other things after they learned of it. Since they didn't understand Afroasiatic Egypt was always off limits until it was captured by Alexander of Macedonia.

    Originally they were only from Africa. The upper and lower parts of Egypt along the Nile was united at around 3000 BC nowhere near the time of Alexander's 600 BC.
    Yes of course, the original Egyptians were Afroasiatics. But that doesn't mean that the Indo-Europeans were less developed at all.

    Contemporaneous with Egypt were the Minoan Civilization in Crete, Greece and the Indus Valley Civilization in the Indian Subcontinent, together with ancient China and Mesopotamia, those were the cradles of civilization.

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  11. #31
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              Ethnicity:   Filipino
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    thats filipinos

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